Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

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Lava
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Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby Lava » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:57 pm

After looking at the number of team members on the ROM12 team (5 members) I've noticed that the teams are getting bigger with each speedgame. This is when I noticed that there are more people working on ROM12's game then there currently are for the last community project. Not to mention all of people working on their own speedgame combined outweighs the number of people working on the majority of the attempted community games.

I've also noticed that there's *way* more motivation to do a speedgame, than there is a community game. Despite there being only devpoints and fancy screen names to obtained (and oh yeah, bragging rights) in doing a speedgame. There's also alot more stress and each group is on their own to put out their best effort.

But maybe there's something to be said for a speedgame that cultivates productivity where community games do not? Maybe being rushed to make a game gets people to be more active? Maybe those bragging rights are a good enough reward?

I think we need a small time frame to make a community game as well as incentives to make one. Maybe give people devpoints if they help create a community game successfully?

So to cut to the chase, I have three proposals:

1. We take a speedgame and expand upon it.
With this idea, we go through a speedgame as usual and pick one that will be the basis for the community project.

The pros of this idea is that you already have the ground work of the game done, with a project leader. There's no need to decide what programming language there is to use or what the game will be about-- its all been decided. Also, if the community game part doesn't work, you still have a

The bad part is deciding which game to use. We could just pick one that wins a particular category or have a straight up vote.



2. We have a community game competition.

We have teams competing just like they would with a speedgame. But instead of the four categories, the community votes to pick the best game. We could also emphasize larger teams so maybe it boils down to just 2 competing teams, but smaller teams can work with this-- it just means less evidence of good team coordination.

The good thing about this is that it can encourage people to make more well rounded games, as opposed to just focusing on one category (not saying everyone does this, but I am sure some have).

The problem is that it boils things down to a win or lose format, whereas a speedgame is more rewarding, even for groups that don't do as well.



3. We make a community project in the same style of a speedgame
We use the same format of a speedgame: Its the same amount of time to do a design phase, develop the game and a there's a theme.

This works because it gets people to make a game in a timely manner. You also get everyone on board, as opposed to people who might want to work on a community project but feel they're just expanding someone else's game. Making a game a community project from the get-go allows involvement from the community in the design phase.

The bad part is that you have to decide everything, but the design phase can help with that. And perhaps this could done after doing idea 1 or 2. In other words, you choose a speedgame or the winning community game and take 2-3 weeks to expand it.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby Mene-Mene » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:01 pm

One reason SpeedGame games work better is because there is a command structure.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby Lava » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:05 pm

Ahh, good point. One of the reasons I said picking a speedgame works, is because you already have a project leader.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby HeardTheWord » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:20 pm

I know I'm part of the reason the community project died and it's due to my lack of interest/direction in the actual game. I also think it boils down to working with people you are comfortable with and knowing their strengths/weaknesses. For me it's a matter of communication. IrishCream and I are on Skype a lot to hash out ideas using voice/screen sharing, a forum or other form of text communication just doesn't compare. It also seems to work better when a small group creates the core game and others simply contribute pieces (art/music/levels). Obviously not all projects are alike.

In my opinion, there is more merit in finishing/polishing your speedgame after the competition. In our case we aren't even going to submit a game to the competition because we feel it won't do the game justice to have it half finished. I still think short game development cycles are good for creativity and force you to sacrifice ideas that don't add to the core gameplay. Though without clear direction the development can become unending and unfinished.

Having a week long design phase is a double edged sword as well. We spent the entire time coming up with ideas and shooting them down without actually being able to implement them. Then once we got to the development phase we realized that what was "designed" wasn't going to work how we envisioned. In essence we threw out a good chunk of the design phase. IrishCream and I tend to be more iterative in our development so this could just be related to us.

Anyway, I'm not saying that a community project is bad but I'd love to see our speedgames get the polish they deserve. The game is something you are already invested in and maybe you'll find someone in this community that fits great with your team. The best part is that everyone on your team is on the same page and passionate about the project. Starting a new community project will require you to cultivate that passion which takes time and clear direction.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby launcher » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:34 am

I really think that it needs to be deeper than a speed game.

I still believe the cdn project x would be way more effective. The idea of making several games under 1 theme, so that rpgs, card games, action, strategy, and all others can be made from it. a pool of graphics, storys and things would be built up, so that a person could make games with the information.

what happens is can do many games by many groups, not everyone works well together. and to big of groups can be dysfunctional.

make it a community project? where people can work within a area and way there comfterable. while still making games they like. the best example of this is starwars, you have developers making lightsaber duel games, have space based games, infantry based games, command and conquere based games, rpgs, card games, they all use the same characters, ships, technology, and the games feed eachother fans. each game feeds the project more and more. more music, more graphics, more character content, more stories. so theres information about it in all areas. and the games take what they want, use a game from it. which may expand or may not expand the project. but any game generates more intrest and in the long run helps the project. like a person takes all stuff like graphics, music and stuff makes a game with it, maybe its humorus and mocks the projects characters. like it spoofs everything that also proves funny and helps the project.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby brownboot » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:18 am

@launcher; That's no more efficient than everyone making their own game. Just sayin.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby launcher » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:10 am

the community game is to narrow... its just about impossible to include everyone... people using different code, different graphics. have some doing pixle art, some 2d, some 3d. some graphics makers make theres all art like, others aim for realism. to blend together that many graphics and coding types and make a decent game is next to impossible.

the idea of a community project is you all work on the project to further the project, not a game in particular.

for example a musician could make a few songs in there spare time maybe not want to do more, drop them off and they feel there done.

another example lets say a writer wishes to help us, write a story, you know a few hundred page book about the characters. in a community game that much content wouldnt likely make it in.

take the last community project the coding was delegated (or however they got doing it) to 1 or 2 people, the rest got bored and quit because all we did was wait, which obviously effected the coder. if the coder would have seen graphics, story theme music. and see exactly what was going on with the project, sure they would have been more intrested in it.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby ArchAngel » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:11 am

Well, the game doesn't need to include everyone, only those who are interested.

I wonder if we run the community game as an open source project, it might run a little smoother. Get a mercurial or git repository up, along with a bug tracker. LAVA's idea of starting with a speedgame entry works out, since we all agreed for them to be open source, and it provides a starting point where people can start filing issues and tackling them. The people most interested in the project contribute the most.

And what if we're going about this wrong. What if it's not about hosting a community game, but maybe several. Have a couple repositories for their respective games, and people can contribute to whichever they want. I liked the idea of CDN working on Bible Dave, but honestly, the project didn't interest me personally. But, say, Lava put up his SpaceJourney game as another option and I'm like, hey, this is something I'd like to participate in, and I start by grabbing some low hanging fruit, (quick bug fixes, etc). Might be a way for people to get some extra hands on their personal projects, while letting other participate at a gradual pace rather than committing and stalling.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby SSquared » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:46 am

I'm still under the impression a community game will only work if there is someone who doesn't care about anyone else working on it. Someone with motivation for it who will work on the game no matter what. If others want to join along at some point then great. That is why Bible Dave worked. It seemed to have one or two people who saw it all the way through. If they had stopped, where would Bible Dave be today?

We did also have a community "Bible David Lancaster" game, too. Done in a few days, I think. But again, there was gumption and motivation by people to get it done.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby ArchAngel » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:52 am

I completely agree, S2.
No matter what project, you need a core team or core member pushing it through. Open Source projects still require the top level people keeping track of the bugs and road maps, laying down the architecture, and just plain developing.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby brownboot » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:46 am

Lots of good considerations in here. I'd consider a Community Mod a valid project as well instead of starting from scratch. It would certainly be easier for members to plug content in piecemeal and see the results right away. The focus would be more on content creation and feature expansion than perfecting core mechanics, etc.

Might be worth considering...
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby launcher » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:10 pm

the problem is you use a speed game everythings already done... main graphics are reused and done, scenery mostly done, opening page and options done. game mechanics done, the game only becomes longer, manual writing? the players guide book? the ability to contribute seems very limited and small...
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby brownboot » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:30 am

Yes with a Mod or Speedgame there is less to do. That's a good thing, most of us don't have time to do a lot regularly. But there are a lot of little projects that add to the value of a game...

>Lets add a new enemy type.
>I'll replace the art for this character that's just a palette swap atm with something new.
>2 More levels here will fix the pacing.
>Lets really fine tune progression time.
>I can script more cutscenes so we don't have to read all this info.
>We can adjust the AI to make the computer play smarter.

Etc.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby launcher » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:51 am

the community game seems to have stahled again?
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby brownboot » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:04 pm

Well your recent suggestions are too big and complicated to be feasible. Not that they are necessarily bad, just out of sync with the pace of the community atm.

Based on the current interest I think you're best off starting up your own project and posting it for feedback. I am having tons of fun watching Lava's project proceed and if you got a working prototype together I could definitely be down for helping make an asset or two when I'm not busy to help out and be a learning experience for the rest of the forum.
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby launcher » Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:14 pm

:P seems to be no real intrest.

and the coder totaly vanished on me again. i already have some 3d model mock ups, trying to explain it...

well photobuckets down and unavaliable try getting them up later...

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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby launcher » Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:30 pm

its been around 2 months now... looks pretty dead? anyone working on this?
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Re: Community Game extended from a Speedgame?

Postby launcher » Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:04 pm

:shock: realtime community project video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9H-b8v1 ... sults_main" target="_blank

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