Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

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bugala
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Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:15 am

Im going to make another thread about story.

One of the things that would be good to be decided quick would be to decide what kind of graphics will this game have, so I can start concretely making this game.

I have thought basically about 3 different graphic styles:

1. Right from above
2. 8-bit/16-bit manga rpg styled 3D thing.
3. Isometric

Here is example picture of them all:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/337 ... piccdn.JPG


Personally I think the third option, the isometric graphics would be best, since that way it in my opinion would be easiest for anyone to participate in making graphics. As you can either make graphics in 3D, or you can make them in pure 2D and they can still fit quite nicely together.


It would be possible to make hexagon shaped tiles etc. but as I am going to be enough in trouble with just the pathfinding code, I rather just keep it in rectangles so i dont need to take extra trouble figuring out that too.



What I would like to know at this point already is wether there are any people intersted in graphics director and how many of them. You dont need to be from beginning to end, but you can be the time that you see fit, even if its only a short while.

Especially in-game graphics director will be having some extra challenge as he needs to figure out which different graphics styles work together the best and so on as supposedly enemies will come from several different artists with different styles.

Another thing I would like to know at this point too is how many are possibly going to submit some graphics to this project in next three months time.

You can either reply to this thread or PM me about your interest to graphics director or that you are possibly going to submit some graphics.

I am just wanting to have some rough idea wether there is how much idea to structure things.

For example if there is only once artist, then we can as well pick the games graphics style according to the best fit for that one artist.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby brownboot » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:34 am

I've got some ideas for a few things we can setup early on to make it easy for lots of folks to contribute to the art. Isometric is fine so lets just make that call now.

Once we're set on the story/style we can get some sheets put together and anybody can manipulate them to create additional assets.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:53 am

And so it is decided, Isometric it is.

Thanks Brownboot.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby mikale » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:20 am

Tell us your ideas brownboot. I might be able to help with this.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby b-o » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:37 am

bugala wrote: Another thing I would like to know at this point too is how many are possibly going to submit some graphics to this project in next three months time.
I don't mind if you want to use the tiles I made for the old community game in this community game:
Spoiler! :
Image

Image
But they would probably need to be modified for isometric use (new trees etc.). I kind of prefer the idea of diamond shaped tiles for isometric games though, but I probably won't be making those. And I'm not sure if these old tiles would be a good art style if 3d modellers want to be involved.

I would probably make some sprites, if I can match the style that's chosen.
I think it would be nice if we made some of the speed challenges specifically related to this community game in order to kill two birds with one stone.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:38 am

Thanks b-o, I might use your graphics for testing purposes and to make the current build look nicer at some point.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:56 am

As I noticed that in first chapter after Mansoul gets conquered, also Lord Innocense dies it came to my mind graphics wise one possibility to do.

For many a player 8-bit era was concretely our childhood, the era of innocence.

Therefore it came to my mind since as we have some NESrestricted artists in our Forum who hopefully make some graphics for Community Game too, we could do so that the first level would be done with NEStrickted graphics, and after Lord Innocence dies, Graphics would immedaitelly change into more recent ones as after all, Lord Innocence dies as a result of people of Mansoul getting the knowledge of Good and Evil.

I am not sure if that would work in practice to start with 8-bit era graphics and then suddenly swtich to more recent style graphics, but at least as a thought i find it exciting.

For it would work especially for those who had their childhood in 8-bit era as same way as their innocence ended, so did 8-bit era.


If not taking this big a step as starting with 8-bit gfx and turning into more recent. Then at least the Lord Innocence could be drawn by one of NEStricted artists, since I think that at least would work if Lord Innocence is in 8-bit format even nothing else wouldnt be.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby brownboot » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:12 am

Being able to do one thing consistently with a group is already hard enough, lol. I think we should stick to one style.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby brownboot » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:48 am

bugala; can you give us the very basics of the gameplay? Traditional tower defense? How does the rpg stuff work, etc?

I'll will put together a couple reference sheets for us.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:08 pm

I think the current build can five you somewhat good idea about the game to some degree.

Notice that the grey box there on right bottom is "end turn" - button.


There are still lot of questions remaining. Like are attackers going to be single characters or are they going to be armies?

Basically I think Sinlge characters would be better from wide variety of gfx artis point of view.

There is also a question if there are going to be some characters whose size would expand larger than just one square. For example could there be big bosses or trebuchets that would take more than one space?

Current Battle system is also very simple. In final version there could be things like multiple weapons, area attacks, random factors etc.



And yes, I think we should still aim at Tower defence, since my AI skills arent that good.

I do think there will come possibilities like there coming squad of characters from which one is boss (general) and rest follow him as a group, and there could come such things as 3 characters coming in same turn from which 2 are going to be attacking closest ones, while 1 tries to rush to goal. (by other words idea being that 4 try to keep defences busy while that one runs towards target)


But even with those, I think it is still fit only for Tower Defence type of game, and not much more.


To give you some better idea about game, lets take level 1, it could go for exampe like this:

On right top edge there is Ear Gate. Inside ear gate is Diabolus, a character that stays still the whole level.

At some point, say after 20 turns, captain resistance comes from nowhere (by otherwords from right) to right edge right beside diabolus.

At left edge there would be one arrow shooter that is meant to be get beside ear gate to shoot captain resistance after those 20 turns.

When level starts, you could have for example 100 commanding points (or whatever we will call those) and for 40 command points, you could put one swordman on map on selected places (right side of map, outside of eargate).

Each turn there could come 1 more captain resistances man from left of map that are moving towards ear gate.

When you slay captain resistances men with your swordmen, these swordmen would gain personal experience, and in addition, would give you more command points that you could use to raise more swordmen or boost your current men or something.


What comes to XP part. What I am currently thinking is that each time you put a swordman (or any other type) to battlefield, they would be: Swordman 1, swordman 2 and so on. Continuing that way.

If swordman 2 gets enough XP, he will reach level 2 (more hitpower, more hp... the usual, maybe even more attacks or better AI or something) and these stats would carry on from level to level.

but thing is, next level when you are raising your army again, and you put swordman to field, the first swordman will be swordman 1. So even if Swordman 2 would be better than swordman 1, they would still come on their same order on each level.

And in addition if swordman 2 happens to die during a combat, then he would be forever lost.



What coms to level two, after reading chapter two of holy war (havent got farther than that yet) it seems like one possibility is that there would be these Gauntlet game type creature spawners, something like barracks where each turn (or whatever the frequency) there would keep coming more creatures attacking you, and only way to stop them would be by destroying those barracks.



Hope this helps you at least to some degree.

What comes to wether armies or single characters occupying spaces etc. I think you can decide on that one on artistic basis which one is easier to do with multiple artists (I suppose single characters) and we will pursue the game plans forward accordingly.


Originally I was basically hoping others to make the whole design and me just code them, but seems I will be heacvily involving the game design too now.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:39 pm

Oh, and something extremely important.

graphics are going to be 1920x1080, it will automatically scale graphics for lower resolutions (mobiles).

And one big open question is what sized map there is going to be.

Currently it is 15 x 8 tiles, but i would hope there to be more tiles, but since i dont have sutable android mobile, i cant test if tiles can be smaller or not or will it become too hard to press on mobile devices already if its smaller than current size.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:57 am

And one more thing, I am trying to avoid using map scrolling.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby brownboot » Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:23 am

What do you all think about these little bean guys:

http://blog.allenwhite.com/wp-content/u ... riors1.jpg[/thumb]
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby brownboot » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:05 am

Here's some cavalry.

http://blog.allenwhite.com/wp-content/u ... riors2.jpg[/thumb]

As you can see the basic shapes are really straight forward, just interconnected bean shapes. No limbs so all the animation will be squash/stretch and swinging the props, etc. Nice and easy that way.

There are two options, pixel or vector art. I feel like pixel art will be the easiest for most of the community to contribute to. I'll put together some basic crib sheets of a naked character and we'll be able to just draw gear on top of them to make new units. If anyone has an opinion lets hear it.

Also, the reason I elected isometric is it requires fewer angles than a grid that is completely parallel to the grid (diagonal up, diagonal down vs side, up, down). I'd advise we go diagonal with it though, but its tricky in terms of spacing on screen. In general it will fit our mechanics fine. If everybody is fine with the bean guys I'll sketch some environment assets to get the ball rolling.

I'll put together some research pages as well when I do the crib sheets.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby b-o » Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:24 am

brownboot wrote:What do you all think about these little bean guys:
Reminds me of veggie tales.

I kind of think that if we are using pixel art, that animating limbs might be easier than animating some sort of jelly bouncing. But maybe that's just me. I'm ok with the veggie tales potato guys though.

One thing I noticed in the pictures from the first edition book on Ebay which I linked in the storyline thread was that it looked like someone had a tail:
Spoiler! :
Image
So I kind of think it would be nice if stuff like this was shown, maybe the bad guys could look different, like if they had tails, or looked more creature-esque. But I haven't read the story yet, so maybe those kind of features are only defined for specific characters within the story? It would be nice if the sprites had correspondence to the story even if it's within the realm of jellybean men.


Edit: fixed a typo.
Last edited by b-o on Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:15 pm

I hope more graphics guys will tell their opinion wether they want Beans or not, as they will be the ones making them.

Except for the high resemblence for Veggietales (which i dont know if its good or bad thing) I think the beans are pretty brilliant.

For it at least seems like something that would be fairly easy for everyone to make somewhat similar styled graphics and it would also already right from graphics point of view tell people that this is not going to be following the book literally but liberties have been taken (like take chapter 3 with 40 000 troops attacking - either we use army untis, or there wont be 40 000 troops attacking, just 100 beans)

And b-o is right, in chapter 1 Diabolus disguises himself as a dragon. It is not mentioned by chapter 3 wether this disguise have been took off or not, so i suppose its still on. But I dont see much problem disguising one of the beans as a dragon bean.

But I feel most important part of graphics is that everyone who want to try their artistic skills could try out in this community game, so if gfx people dont feel like wanting to make beans, then we can try figuring out something else.

Im fine with either.


People planning to contrbibute some art on this, please comment the beans, or maybe even give other ideas if you have for graphics.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:51 pm

What comes to pixel, vector, what.

I have been talking with Achild about his Basis tool:
http://talk.christiandevs.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3681 (heres one thread about it)

If I understood right from our talks, Achild is planning to add Hollywood support for this tool very soon, and hence I think it would be great to use this for community game, as not only would gfx artists etc. get to show works of their hands, but also software makers.

It would be great if Community Game would be the first game ever to use Basis software, that is also made by our fellow CDN member.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby bugala » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:33 am

Heres a better link to Basis – Bone and Sprite Integration System:
http://blog.christiandevs.com/?p=1259
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby HanClinto » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:47 am

Brownboot, I love the beans!! They're so ridiculously cute.

If we go with pixel art, I think we could do a really good thing by not even trying to squash / squish them, but instead just have the various parts be static and animated around each other. Such animations would be really easy to do with something like Spriter, and new weapons / characters / armors would only need to have a single frame drawn before they're substituted into the animation. I could see that working really well with a community game concept.


These beans somewhat remind me of the various beans in the card game Bohnanza. Classic game, and in it the various beans have various attributes based on the kind of bean that they are (similar to the plants in Plants vs. Zombies in that way I suppose). So wax beans have a slippery floor, chili beans are on fire, stink beans are... well... stinky. Etc etc etc. A friend of mine re-did graphics for all of the beans for a home-made version:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/239 ... d-the-posh
There are lots of fun puns and play-on words available there.


Anyways, just wanted to say that I absolutely love the beans with disconnected limbs idea -- that art style worked REALLY well for the old "Smiley Battles" on the forums here, and I think that would fit extremely well in a community art project.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

Postby HanClinto » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:49 am

bugala wrote:Heres a better link to Basis – Bone and Sprite Integration System:
http://blog.christiandevs.com/?p=1259
Oh nice -- yeah, that looks very similar to Spriter, and that sort of animation system would greatly reduce the workload on artists for this project.
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