Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

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bugala
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby bugala » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:40 am

That is good idea of having trials as bonus stages, especially when considered that after the trials, throughout the book, every now and then they are either able to capture some Diabolian hiding in Mansoul, or some Diabolian gets caught as being Diabolian, for not all Diabolians are known to be Diabolians at beginning but are caught to be such because of their actions. It also mentions in the end that now all Diabolians were or will ever be caught in Mansoul, and that is to keep Mansoulians all the time alert so that they cant be attacked by surprise anymore.

However, did you have any idea about what kind of levels would these bonus levels be? As they are simply trials in book with dialogs, and end in sentencing them to death everytime. For only (simple) thing that comes to my mind right away is that you would play as the accused, and have multiple answer choices and would try to avoid execution as long as possible, but it is hard to imagine that would seem like something fun enough for player to look forward for the next bonus level.

Your graphics idea is very good too. That would give a bit of 3D feeling to it, yet it would still be very simple. Also, It would be easy from engine point of view to make.

The group of units can be drawn for example same way as in Heroes of Might and Magic. You simpy have a picture of one dragon for example, and then below that dragons geet reads a number telling about the amount of dragons in that group. For the idea in Heroes of Might and Magic is that groups consist of only one type of unit, hence it being possible to represent it graphically as a single unit.

But then there could also be possiblity of representing units in way of, lets take that Kingdom Rush picture you showed. You can see there are sometimes more than just one small guy walking in same square. Hence it could be also, that if you have for example less than 5, it would be represented by 1 man, 6 - 20, two men, 21 - 50, three men, 51 - 100, four men, and 100+ with five men.
This would make it easier for player to figure out the situation at glance.
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EternityStar
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby EternityStar » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:27 pm

Like the sunlight in Plants vs. Zombies, if you gain enough Heart Pieces to restore your Heart, you can call on mighty archangels to take down the waves of enemies. However, if your Heart runs out of Heart Pieces, GAME OVER!

What does everyone think?
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EternityStar
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby EternityStar » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:45 pm

Sorry! I didn't know we had a story already...
Never mind... :oops:
Last edited by EternityStar on Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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brandav
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby brandav » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:31 pm

@bugala Okay cool, your group of units idea works perfectly. I like that Kingdom Rush approach.

I’m not familiar with the trials, but could we find a way to make them bonus tower defense levels? You mentioned that in a previous post - making all levels tower defense. The bonus levels don't have to be just like the regular levels though. They could be slightly different like (i don’t know) only using certain weapons or playing under some other specific conditions. They’re bonus levels, so we have the freedom to change it up a little bit. Plus, you could earn more money to buy better weapons and power ups. Making the bonus levels tower defense levels would also simplify the game development process.

At this point, we have many ideas, but I still don’t have a clear idea of what the gameplay would be like. Are the players focused on strategic placement of their weapons/units or are they concerned about strategic maneuvering and attacking of their weapons/units? The few tower defense games I’ve played were more about strategic placement. However, it we’re also going to do reverse tower defense, we’ll probably need to utilize both approaches.

If the purpose of the Diabolians/Shaddai’s forces is to enter the city, at what point do they stop trying to enter the city and start attacking? Do they even attack? My lack of understanding about tower defense games is probably showing through, but I think one of the first things we should be figuring out is how the game is supposed to be played from a user’s perspective.


@EternityStar Welcome to the forums! Those are some good ideas. We already have a background story, but we are still figuring out how the story will be told through the level design, gameplay, and mechanics if you want to share your ideas on that.

Also, feel free to post any of your other game story ideas in the Programming, Art, Design, Sound & Music! section.
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bugala
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby bugala » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:01 am

@brandav

Actually, there is already build existing of the game:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4645

Which also has first level in some form to get you much better idea about what it could look like.

I hadnt made the code forward, since at this point I was waiting to figure out both the story and graphics to avoid doing things twice.


To Eternitystar as well as the rest.

The background story is basically already done, which would be that this is based upon John Bunyans "Holy War" book, as suggested by HanClinto when we were still discussin about the idea.

Therefore we are basically sticking to that plan. However, there havent been much activity in this thing and I am also considering rewriting my engine, which therefore does bring the possiblity of still changing the game idea. So if others want to change the idea, and there comes up some good idea, we could still change the idea. but by default we are continuing with this current one, since we are finally about to get to the next step with this.

Main reason why I am thinking of writing the engine again, although borrowing lot of code from the current one to both speed it up, as well as since most of the code is still useful is, that since there are couple of different approaches on how to make moving objects, I unfortunately picked the wrong one when it comes to Android.

Thing is, I am using Layers and so called Buttons. Those Button work only with Layers, and those Layers are a problem for Android.

When using Layers, everytime you move Layer somewhere, Android devices want to redraw its location.

However, due to the nature Hollywood works in Android takes some time before it starts drawing. This is not a problem when moving only one object, but when you want to move for example 5 different objects, it means it goes to that drawing state 5 times, and that is slow. You can notice this slowness for example when map is drawn at beginning, it goes to this drawing mode 80 times (if i correctly remember map is 8 x 10 currently).

If I change it to using doublebuffering instead, I can do so that for example the map is first comlpetely drawn on background, and then shown to Android screen, and hence that Android device needs to go to that drawing mode only once.

However, double buffering doesnt work with Layers, and Buttons dont work without Layers, and hence there comes a need to write the graphics parts bit differently from what I have currently done.

I also did some other programming choices that i have afterwards been thinking it had been wiser to do them different way. Hence I am considering rewriting the engine. It is a delay of course, but not necessarily that much. The current engine didnt take that much time to make, and if I am using some parts of the olds code, it might not be that long a process.

This anyway opens up possibilities for doing some big changes to the plan at this point still. Even possiblities of making it traditional tower defence type game where units move in real time. But basically I personally like to give this turn based way a try, since theres load of real time ones, but turn based ones i havent seen at all (although i suppose someone must have done that before too).

By the way, I like that Heart idea of yours. I am actually thinking if we should perhaps implement that to this in some form. For in tower defence games there is quite typically some powerful things, like airstike, or lightning or something that builds up either in time, or based upon kills or something else, for example in fieldrunners 2 (and probably in first one too), it was based upon that everytime you got a group kill, you would get closer to getting one air strike.

Hence I am thinking this big heart that builds up could be something like that. That when you get it full, you can do something, for example strtike one diabolonian dead. And similarly when playing on Diabolonian side, there could be some sort of sin that keeps building up and then you can strike mansoulian/shaddai units with it.
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EternityStar
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby EternityStar » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:26 pm

@bugala

So since we are done with the story, where should I go now? Should I go to:

Community Game: Current State
Community Game: Current Build
Community Game: Holy War - Level Designing.
Community Game: Lets get started - The Graphics part.

I want to "keep up to pace" with the project and I don't want to get left behind just because I'm new.

Thank You! :D
"Behold way yonder, the Eternity Star!"
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bugala
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby bugala » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:02 am

Well, I think best way would be to check teh current build to get quite good idea of what the game could be like. And then continue discussin in this thread about the story.

For after we get the story in place (including style of graphics), we will get to the part where actual graphics and level designs can be made.

I think I will keep this part open until speedgame competition ends, since usually when speedgame competition is going on, there are much more people around too.

Plus at this point i like to get feedback from as many people as possible, since after this things are much harder to change anymore, and I especially like to get feedback from those actually planning to make the graphics so it doesnt happen that we pick a graphics style that they are not interested in making at all.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby EternityStar » Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:56 pm

Also I was wondering, what is the title of the game?
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bugala
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby bugala » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:50 pm

Actual Title name havent been decided yet. I have been using "Holy War" as working title.

I havent actually even realised that we actually have to think about the title too at some point until you asked about it.

I guess anyone can already throw name suggestions if they have some good ideas, and at point that we actually need the title for firt time, that would perhaps be when someone would start to draw main menu graphics perhaps, then at that point I am going to put an actual thread maybe about it or at least separate comment about it. But feel free to throw names already.

Basically I would suggest something like "John Bunyans - Holy War". The thought in this being that it would draw interest towards John Bunyan, and some people might actually read some John Bunyans book. There is also christian game existing based upon John bunyans "Pilgrims Progress", so I am as well hoping that it would draw some interest towards that game as well. Anyway, that is just my suggestion and current thought about it. There is however no reason why the name couldnt be something completely different than "Holy War", plus the actual whole book title is: "The Holy War Made by King Shaddai Upon Diabolus, to Regain the Metropolis of the World, Or, The Losing and Taking Again of the Town of Mansoul", but mostly it is referred simply by "Holy war", for example Finnish wikipedia page about John Bunyan at point it lists hes most important books titles it as "Holy War", and doesnt even mention that the whole title is actually larger.

feel free to throw suggestions.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby TheLittleSettler » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:39 pm

I'd avoid "Holy War" as is. It has too many bad connotations. "John Bunyan's Holy War" is ok though.

I was thinking of something centered about Mansoul - Sieges of Mansoul, Conquest of Mansoul, Mansoul

Hmm...I'd probably just go with

Mansoul
A TD game based on John Bunyan's "The Holy War Made by King Shaddai Upon Diabolus, to Regain the Metropolis of the World, Or, The Losing and Taking Again of the Town of Mansoul"

Or a somewhat more intregueing title - The Strength of Diabolus or The Drums of Diabolus's Hosts. Deliberately, so that the game can point out that it is in fact about the relative lack of strength, or the relative lack of army to accompany said drummers.

Anyway, I hope that helps. I have been following this more or less.
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bugala
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby bugala » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:01 am

Good point about that plain "Holy War" name. I hadnt even thought about how confusing and misleading it can be.

Some could think its a Jihad game, and the rest would think it is perhaps something to do with around about 1 000 AD Crusades, etc.

Better use something that is not so misleading.

Also comes to my mind it could be a bit of a trick to use the whole name since if someone writes for example review about the final product, I think he will feel amused about the long title and it can also gain some extra publicitiy and notice.
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EternityStar
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby EternityStar » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:26 pm

How about "Gates of Mansoul"?
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby bugala » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:01 pm

By quick I would think that would be excellent name for the game when considering the story.

For after all, the whole idea is that there was no other way inside mans soul, but through one of the gates (eye, ear, feel...). Hence gates of mansoul would be excellent idea actually, since in some sense, that is exactly what that story is about, especially when made into Tower Defence game.

That thought even gives me an idea that one possibility for the whole story would be to change it in a way that it would concentrate on telling what kind of weapons Diabolus uses to attack each of the gates, instead of following the story. That you would all the time be defending mansoul, instead of switching sides during the story.

As simple example. At level where you are defending eyegate, there could be some tempting looking figures at attackers, and when at ear gate, there could attack for example idle gossipers and illquestioners.

Excellent name idea. Definetily worth considering.
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Re: Community Game: Lets get started - The Story

Postby bugala » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:25 am

Just bumping this up now that theres plenty of people visiting forum.

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