Me and Knight-Storm

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JediKnight83
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Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:39 am

In April 2010 I graduated college. I graduated with a degree in Simulation, Animation, and Gaming. The job hunt is not going so well. Game companies do not want to hire recent college grads it seems, its all about experience. On to Knight-Storm.

Knight-Storm is more of a game universe than just one individual game, like Star Wars. I have come to find that it is very difficult to design games by ones self. With Knight-Storm, and all things developed from it I want to contextualize the Gospel and provide a conduit by which Christians can witness to their non-Christian friends.

Long story short I do not have much accomplished. I need help. Currently, I am trying to figure out how much "creative license" I have with the Bible. See I have "races" that I want to use, but they are not exactly fully "human." Maybe you guys can help me.

The races I have thus far are the Draka, Kugris, Kazetos, Gaiochi, Human, and the Aquasui. Also, I have a deity named Creao, who is supposed to represent God. Of course things get a bit dicey after that because I cannot figure out how I can use this as it is, especially when trying to honor and glorify God at the same time.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby andygeers » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:00 am

Personally, I think that how much creative license you have with the Bible depends on your goals, and on how you present it. e.g. if your goal is to make a game based around a Christian worldview but where it is clear that it is set in a separate "universe" then I'd have thought it was safe to make up your own events/races, and having God be known by a different name is probably quite a helpful and respectful device for making it clear that this is fiction. Presumably the point where you would draw the line is that the God of your universe would have to behave consistently with the character of the God of the Bible- otherwise it ceases to be a Christian worldview and you are no longer showing people a distinctively Christian God.

Where it becomes messy is if you present it in such a way that your entirely fictional universe is presented as on a par with the non-fictional historical accounts of Biblical events. But that should be pretty easy to avoid, I'd have thought.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby achild » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:13 am

Think about the Chronicles of Narnia! The only problem I have with them is that I never knew and would never ever have guessed they were symbolic whatsoever of Biblical things, Jesus, and the gospel, had I not been born again, received a little knowledge and understanding of God's Word, and been told directly that that's what the Chronicles of Narnia was meant to be. But this is a wonderful example similar to what you're doing.. I think.

Thoughts to meditate on.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby Mene-Mene » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:36 am

Welcome to CDN!

To the best of my knowledge, you're right, getting into the industry is more about who you know and less about what degree you have. A really good portfolio can take you a long way though.

As for where to draw the line? I would say the Chronicles of Narnia, like the others.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:40 am

Thanks for the input. I am still trying to figure out the events in my universe. Trying to create a history that doesn't exist is a bit difficult. I thought about events in my game universe being on par with biblical accounts only so far as the event itself and the meaning behind it. For example: I would have a Creation story, a Fall, a Flood, and a Babel. These events would be the exact events in reality but based on them.

Do have any suggestions for history creation? Not just for a group of people, but an entire universe.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby RockinRickOwen » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:12 pm

my personal methodology is the following, loosely based on God's creation of the world and subsequent events:

Pre-World: Cosmology: God, angels, demons, the "gods," heaven & hell, the nature of man, the nature of the world; Geography: how big is your world? How many zones do you want? Prior to the Seven Days of Creation, the globe already existed, albeit covered with water. At least, that's what we're told it looked like.

2. DAY ONE: Time: night & day, is the game time faster or the same as our reality?
3. DAY TWO: Weather cycles, if any
4. DAY THREE: Land Masses & Oceans; Vegetation
Mineral Kingdom: deposits of metal ore, useful minerals (salt, coal, etc), stone,
generally, crystals & jewels are found in mines, but not always
Vegetable Kingdom: Grasses, including grains for food and flax for clothes
Herbs, including vegetables, tea, tobacco, hemp (for rope)
Trees, for fruits, nuts, timber, some spices,
5. DAY FOUR: Sun, Moon, Stars & Planets; seasons, weekly & yearly schedules
6. DAY FIVE: Creatures of the Water & Creatures of the Air
7. DAY SIX: Reptiles, "Bugs," and Peoples (includes all sentient races)

AFTER THE FALL....
1. Sin & Death, what are the rules?
2. Weaponry (Cain & Abel); Music, Crafting, Farming, Clothes, etc
3. Warfare
4. Magic & Religion, spirituality, prophecy
5. Giants & Monsters (if any)
6. Ships
7. Natural Disasters

AFTER THE FLOOD
8. the Nations & Cities of the World; their cultures
9. the Languages of the World
10. the Special People & Scriptures, if any

A THOROUGH WAY TO MAKE A HISTORY (this should involve some dice):
For each sentient race that has it's own civilization, make 9 categories for 9 leaders within that civilization: the King, the High Priest; the Master Mason; the Miller; the Hero; the Master Smith; the Wizard; the Warlord; the Bard. Each leader will rule from 10 to 60 years (one variable). Each leader's greatness will range from "the Great & Good" to simply average to "the Terrible & Wicked" (variable two). Great Kings expand civilization, and create laws. The Priests lead nations towards or away from God. Masons build monuments (including Wonders, and dungeons). Millers will determine the agricultural & population level. Heroes are legendary adventures. Smiths make special items (the better the number of the smith, the better military equipment the nation will have at that time). Wizards discover magic, teach people, create monsters. Warlords win battles (if a goblin army's stats exceed a human army's, guess who wins?). Bards determine cultural influence, morale, and morality. Start the chart when the civilization begins, for as long as you wish. Interpret the numbers as you will: a good hero might overthrow an evil king, or an evil "hero" or warlord might overthrow a bad one. Likewise, a wizard may send a hero on a quest. The hero's equipment will be determined by his own number, plus the smith's, plus the cleric's (for a blessing), plus the wizard's (for an enchantment). This will mean that some relics will be more valuable than others. The various numbers can be combined to represent various aspects of the civilization. For instance, the mason's number may also represent the value of labor, meaning the higher the number the greater production of sawmills, quarries, and mines.

A good thing to do is read an atlas of the ancient world, or some such other book, to get a feel for all the variety of civilizations, from the sea-faring Phoenicians & Polynesians, to the agriculturally dependent Indians & Egyptians, to the barbaric Celts & Zulus, to the militarized Spartans & Japanese. Another recommendation is watching Spike TV's "Deadliest Warrior" to see what ancient weapons were really capable of. There are some surprises--the famous Japanese Samurai sword, the Katana, which can eviscerate up to three people at once in the hands of a master, can't remotely slice through something like Viking chain mail. Not so surprising: in their heyday, the ancient Spartans were probably the best warriors in history, before they became bogged down in their own military traditions, and lost the flexibility required to defend themselves against the Romans.

edit: on creating the histories, I always give a special +1 bonus of greatness to each leader, if their king is "Great." My fantasy mmo design completely avoids creating a history by including time & death in the game, so that the players themselves create the history of the fantasy world, with their adventures, wars, & creations.

Edit 2: Mene, a most capable programmer, could probably come up with a random value generator to help you (or anyone else) create the history. I would advise not letting the computer interpret the numbers, as the necessary drama would require a personal touch.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, "Will ye also go away?" Then Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the Living God." John 6:67-69
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:38 pm

Cool. Now lets take this a step further. For Knight-Storm, I wanted all "races" to stem from one race. Furthermore, technology is very high; starships, intergalactic colonization, etc. Would your idea work in the same way and how does this help build a history for the "races".
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby Mene-Mene » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:15 pm

Personally, I find that anything that's too comprehensive causes me to quickly get bored. I prefer to work by writing stories, and through the stories, exploring the universe.

As for all races stemming from one race, I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. If their physiology is very different, it would require either millions of years or be simply impossible. But if it's simple things like skin tone, then it could quickly happen within a few thousand.

Something I'd suggest is to decide whether you want your sci-fi to be reasonable, or if you want it to simply serve your purposes. For example, in Star Wars, there's no reason for the different wing positions of the X-Wings to make any difference according to science... But George didn't mind himself about that. It doesn't make sense for a society to be able to construct starships, when they can't have invisible objects. (bending light is easy compared to bending space and time)
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby RockinRickOwen » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:42 pm

1. The purpose the generator (I've done it on paper, using dice) is to create a skeleton history. Raw numbers and facts. Something to build stories on. My concern was that I would get repetitive otherwise, or simply lost in a maze of background legends.

2. The generator would work with any fantasy or science fiction setting. With an intergalactic empire, you'd still need rulers, warlords, heroes, agriculturalists, entertainers, religious leaders. Masons would be Engineers, Smiths would be Technicians, and Wizards would be Scientists.

3. Creating branches of a race would be the same as creating branches of a civilization. Mene hinted at the option of evolution, which I'm uncomfortable with. It would take millions of years for that to happen IF evolution could possibly produce such results. Another alternative would be to have a manipulation of the genetic codes for various environments--as was portrayed (to an extent) in the landmark TV series "Farscape." I would suggest that the advanced civilization began altering the DNA of certain colonists so they'd be better suited for their environment. Or perhaps they started altering DNA for specialists-- superhuman soldiers, supersmart scientists, supernimble & energy-resistant engineers & technicians, etc. Perhaps there are even classes within classes. A telepathic soldier could "radio" telepaths in other units, or a precog scout could warn others what was going on, etc.

4. As touching magic, there are three basic kinds, I believe.
a. Naturalistic: using "magic" key-words, crystals, alchemy, or holistic medicine, the Wizard can manipulate the world around him in some way, to some degree. The key-word thing is based on the psuedo-scientific idea that speaking certain words at a certain tone creates a "vibration" in the universe that keys into something that can be affected by that "vibration." This sort of magic would be more like a science. Even the more mundane "Jedi" powers would fit in here, as the source of power is the universe (including man) rather than any supernatural entity.
b. Necromantic: this is the real stuff, although you can as fantastical as you like in a story. It involves the summoning of spirits, natural, demonic or of the dead, to do one's bidding. Dangerous stuff. A lot of shamanism involves a fear of the spirit realm, and the desire to appease the rather arbitrary wrath of the spirits. Shamans will pit one spirit against another, do all sorts of manipulative things, while trying to avoid the whole process backfiring on himself. Shamans might actually be good men who care about their tribe, who believe God is distant, and therefore there's no alternative to dealing with the spirit realm, just to survive from day to day. They're sort of like people living in a ghetto who don't believe there's anyway out, but their hearts ache for something better, something more. Yet some shamans are utterly wicked and depraved. I would imagine, people being people, most shamans are simply in it for the goats, and are just doing their job.
c. Deep Magic: this is the CS Lewis stuff. What Moses & Elijah did. It comes from God, it's a blessing from Him. It doesn't require a man to be righteous (look at Samson!), just obedient to a certain degree. It's there for God's purposes. There's no manipulation involved, nor any spirit of control.

What many Christians fail to understand is that real magic is Necromantic, whereas the Harry Potter books portray the first kind I mentioned, the Naturalistic. Even so, what many more Christians don't understand is that even that sort of magic has a huge moral problem: whether by "science" or magic, the spirit of control is the spirit of control. It's still manipulation. Most Christians aren't willing to see that because the spirit of control permeates our churches, in one form or another (rebellion is a form of control--hence it's like witchcraft; blind faith is also a form of control, as it means one is allowing somebody besides God to be in control of their lives).
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, "Will ye also go away?" Then Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the Living God." John 6:67-69
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:02 am

RockinRickOwen, you talked about numbers helping. What numbers and how do you use the dice to get to them. I mean I like your idea. Also, are the leaders all kings or are they just important people? I guess what I am asking, is what would this look like?

To help clarify the many races from race look at the human race. All of humanity came from two people: Adam and Eve. Also, sin and death came trough Adam. For my game, I wanted to stay with that. I wanted all of the races in my game to work the same way. As far as genetics, that would occur at my "Tower of Babel". If you recall, at Babel God confused the languages and separated humanity into nations. I wanted to take this a step further by also altering their DNA as well, to a point.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby christo » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:37 am

That sounds a lot like an idea I had in the past for a MMORPG. Here an old design document I did for it.Babel-ution. I never did any work on it yet because it was far beyond my level, even today it remains so.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:30 am

christo wrote:That sounds a lot like an idea I had in the past for a MMORPG. Here an old design document I did for it.Babel-ution. I never did any work on it yet because it was far beyond my level, even today it remains so.
I looked at your document. Interesting, but not really what I was thinking for mine. Granted I am just trying to put together the setting for future games. Though a friend of mine did suggest to make a MMORPG with Knight-Storm, at least initially.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby RockinRickOwen » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:27 pm

Only the king would be THE leader of the nation, among the leaders I listed. The rest are just the most pre-eminent in their fields. When I was using this method, I would often make side-notes, such as having one particular leader (mostly generals or heroes) overthrow the previous regime and start their own dynasty. That wouldn't really kick in until the next king though. In fact, if the king was a GREAT king, getting the highest roll of the dice possible, I'd give a bonus to all the other leaders in the nation, and some of them would become GREAT by the king's influence. With this method, it's possible to witness a "Golden Age" for a nation, if the king is benevolent.

For clerics, good ones move people towards God, and bad ones move people away from God. If the people are pagans, merely average clerics won't move them at all. They'll only maintain the status quo. Likewise, good clerics will "take down the idols" but will fail to "remove the high places."

Here's what you do: there are two sets of numbers--how long a leader's regime lasts (in decades or whatever periods of time you prefer), and how great/good that leader is. The highest number means the leadeer is both GREAT and GOOD. The lowest number means the leader is both GREAT and EVIL. The middle number means the leader is average in talent and morality.

Unless you have some sort of database calculation program, take some graph paper or some of that accounting paper (the yellow-green stuff with all the columns) and designate one column per leader. What I did was throw white dice for the length of a leader's regime, and red dice for their greatness/goodness rating. After creating the mere numbers for the nation's history, I would go back through and use the numbers to group the leaders, both as leaders and as "princes" (the decades prior to their leadership). For instance, perhaps the future king and the future hero were friends and had adventures as young men, before they were leaders. And if at this time there was a GREAT cleric, or GREAT wizard, who was good, this leader would act as their mentor, to send them on quests perhaps. A GREAT and EVIL wizard would be someone they quest against, or if they were leaders themselves, someone they would have to contend with. A GREAT and EVIL smith would make a GREAT and EVIL item, or a GREAT and GOOD smith would make a GREAT and GOOD item. (I call all great items Megatems, short for Mega-Items, like the Holy Grail or Excalibur, or the One Ring, or the Golden Fleece, etc).
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, "Will ye also go away?" Then Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the Living God." John 6:67-69
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:31 am

Thanks RockinRickOwen. Is there any particular dice that you use? How would use the numbers to group the leaders? Does this system also allow for major historical events? For example, if one nation goes to war against another. Or does your system only deal with the "leaders" of the particular race/civilization.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby RockinRickOwen » Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:08 pm

1. I was using 6-side dice, a red one for how long the leader "rules" his area of influence within the kingdom, and three white ones for determining the greatness/goodness of the leader. You can use whatever you want. I was just using what I had at hand, borrowing from the board games available.

2. I always grouped leaders according to their goodness: good wizards help good kings & heroes, bad ones ally with bad kings & heroes.

3. The system doesn't really account for any event outside what the leaders can generate themselves. Warlords will wage wars, kings will expand the kingdom, clerics will start new religions or sects, and heroes will go on adventures. Other historical events will require another set of variables, which you can chart out, or you can simply make up.

4. When it comes to nation vs nation, evil nations may fight each other or good nations, while good nations will only fight evil nations. Evil nations will take advantage of weaker ones. Success largely depended on the ratings of the individual leaders. For instance, if an "Assyrian Warlord" is better than a "Babylonian Warlord," the Assyrians had a strict military advantage. Mages represent "military intelligence" Masons "engineering & seige weapons," Bards morale & communication, Clerics medical support, Smiths weapon quality, Kings leadership & cavalry, Warlords infantry & strategy, Heroes "special forces," and Rangers archery.

5. I also used this system to determine which nations expanded into what territories, influencing the development of that particular region, to create movement from place to place. For instance, the original rulers of Mesopotamia were Hamitic, related to the Egyptians, Canaanites, North African peoples & Ethiopians. From Mesopotamia, the Hamitic people spread north and west up the Tigris & Euphrates, and then down to Egypt, through present day Israel. From Egypt, they spread further west and south, occupying both sides of the Red Sea, in order to exploit the rich mineral sources and narrow strips of fertile soil. However, the ancient Chaldeans (a Semitic group then inhabiting southern Mesopotamia & the eastern part of the Arabian peninsula) rose up and expelled their Hamitic oppressors. Thus Mesopotamia, at the time of Abraham, became Semitic, and the Semitic peoples started spreading up the fertile crescent, eventually pushing the Canaanites out of Syria (where Abraham's family lived for a time). After that, everyone was fairly content to leave everyone where they were, and only demanding tribute. This sort of complex historical movement has happened in all parts of the world, though not in the exact same way. The little numbers system I devised can emulate this with some careful mapping and tracking of which nations are feeling particularly aggressive, or have cause to attack another nation (a great and good king might finally invade a land inhabited by goblins, pushing them out... of course, then the goblins are either wiped out, or move somewhere else).

Even a conquered nation MIGHT, just MIGHT, instead of being completely absorbed by or amalgamated into their conquerors (as the British Saxons were by the Normans after the 11th & 12th centuries) continue their own subordinate leadership until such a time as they are strong enough to rebel (as the case was with the Scottish under Robert the Bruce). The Jews are an example of a race that has never been absorbed as a whole by any nation, although it has had a highly influential (though reviled) presence practically everywhere.

Mene is quite correct that the story belongs to you, not the numbers. The numbers are a guideline, a skeleton created at random to remove repetition and too much planning. The muscles, blood and sinew should be up to you.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, "Will ye also go away?" Then Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that Thou art that Christ, the Son of the Living God." John 6:67-69
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:39 pm

I will say this, dice rolling can be very time consuming. Especially when rolling for twelve different races. However, I am really enjoying this system that you came up with RockinRickOwen. As I roll the dice many scenarios come into my head to explain the numbers. Also, GREATs don't come around very often, at least not randomly. Thank you very much for the system. I did kind of tweak it to suit the lifespan of each race. I now have a Knight-Storm Wiki going on, which I will try and keep updated. Here is the link http://work.christiandevs.com/w/index.php5/Knight-Storm.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby Kukanani » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:14 pm

Ok, I have a couple quick thoughts about races. I have thought about this myself in the past.

If you want all races to stem from one, the "basic" solution is evolution...macroevolution. I don't want to get into details, but macroevolution is often difficult to fit into a Christian worldview (some Christians believe that macroevolution did occur, and I do not condemn them for it, it just seems to make less sense to me).

If you don't want to do evolution, then I suggest a "spiritual evolution" approach. In other words, each race is representative of a worldview.

For example, you have some race that's very good at digging/mining/living underground (dwarves?) These would represent people who have become enamored with the earth and themselves...they only live for the planet they live on right now, and they make themselves homes on the earth because that's where they want to stay.

Then you have scientists/astronomers (think elves), who are very concerned with knowledge in general, but not in anything greater. They want knowledge for the sake of knowledge, and they represent those in our world today (philosophers, theoretical physicists, etc.) who live for the pursuit of knowledge with no greater purpose.

Etc...

Maybe, as the original race began to change, God (Creao?) began to change them physically according to their beliefs.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby bugala » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:43 pm

To give Creationist alternative to Evolution (although i dont know how to actually bring practical solution to this problem).

In Creationist view, God used same Lego blocks to build each one. Thats how there can be some similarities between Apes and Humans for example wihtotu the need of using Evolution. There is also practical reason for using same Lego blocks, for if we wouldnt be build with same Lego blocks as for example Water Melons are, then we couldnt use those water melons as our food source.

The spreading of different types of animals/races alongside the planet goes somewaht similar to Evlolution view, that its Survival of the fittest. And those little changes in species is due to micromutation, that there is some capability to mutation. That one dog can produce big dog or small dog, but whatever it produces, it will still be a dog, and not a cat.

Creationst world view agrees with micro level mutation as well as survival of the fittest.

Survival of the fittest for example comes in to play after flood. Animals hop put of arch, and start figthing for living space.

Difference with Australian Animals and rest of the world can be explained (although i personally think requires bit of Gods personal intervention too) by looking at the type of animals in Australia, for basically the are all peaceful creatures.

Therefore these peaceful creatures went further and further away all the time, while the more aggressive ones stayed at their places. In the end these peaceful animals ended to Australia, into which they can get very easily if water level was only some meters down (it was maybe only 20 meters or something, dont remember), for there is very non deep area of water from Australia to about India.

So when these animals got to australia, then the waer rose up and prevented Lions and others from getting there, and these peaceful animals stayed alive in Australia. And from the rest of the world all the fluffy koalas and nice kangaroos were killed, tortured and left bleeding to death (no alphabetic animals were harmed during typing of this text).


Approach of different human races is with the idea, that Adam And Eve had all the genes in them, that when they made kids there came ot Asians, Whites, Blacks, Indians and maybe even some ethnic groups that got wiped out with the flood.

So nowadays that information reduces from generation to generation, we are only able to produce of our own ethnic groups. Although it still sometimes happens that white folks make black kids and so on. I actually have a leaflet about twins where other one is white and other ones black.


So with these in mind, i believe you could make some working system for different races and stuff. Maybe randomly give races options to have hands and how manyand what hey can do with their hands etc.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby JediKnight83 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:32 am

Macro-Evolution will never be apart of this or any other game I design. The reason is that God did not use it. I want to stay as true to his nature as possible.

Concerning the races, I was going to use a "Tower of Babel" event to make the multiple races. Where instead of just confusing the languages, the DNA of particular groups would be altered by Creao (a.k.a. God in Knight-Storm). Adaptability is still in effect of course, often referred to as natural selection or micro-evolution.
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Re: Me and Knight-Storm

Postby Mene-Mene » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:12 am

God also did not split mankind into multiple races at Babel... Just because God didn't use it, doesn't mean you should dismiss it immediately if you're going to use other things God didn't use.
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