I don't believe that the bible teaches we are supposed to completely distance ourselves from non-believers:launcher wrote:i was reading psalm over the last few days, it talked about distancing yourself from non believers, how no non believer is good.
I don't think that is entirely true:launcher wrote: People determine there blessings, if there good are blessed, if bad get punished.
I think God can step in in those situations:launcher wrote: how can you commune with god and try to do whats right if your always impared.
I'm not sure leviticus is the best place to support that, since it is dealing with a jewish theocracy, but the same type of thing is mentioned in the new testament as well, so I agree there are boundaries in certain contexts.launcher wrote:spreading the word of god to them and marrying them is totaly different. is aquaintances, then there is best friends.
in levitcus it says not to marry non believers. (children that worship other gods)
A lot of government failure is merely the result of bad philosophy, economics, etc. If you spend more than you have, you go broke.launcher wrote:I believe that in time things will be made right. was reffering more to city, and state size scope. the book of kings showed very well, when a king, or city became evil and corrupt he smashed them, scattered the inhabitants. look at how many times isreal was conquered, they followed god again and everything was better. when people stray from god he uses adversity to get them back. every evil nation that has exsisted the worse it gets the harder things become. There powerful armys are destroyed, in modern and ancient times.
If someone is truly a follower of Christ, then God directed his ways:launcher wrote:a follower of christ seeks out the good path, a non believer doesnt know how.
How about when they are bent on persecuting Christians? God could still step in like he did with Saul. I've heard stories of drunk people becoming instantly sober upon hearing and receiving the gospel.launcher wrote:no offense but i think there to busy chasing purple elephants, to be concerned with matters of god. really intresting trying to spread the word of god while drooling, certainly would be difficult to do.
I don't think he's being hateful, just blunt with an opinion many would find uncomfortable.. Though I don't agree with everything Launcher says, Jesus was blunt and said things others found offensive enough to want to kill him.ArchAngel wrote:I don't even know even know how to quantify on how wrong and twisted all of that was, launcher.
I mean, you read psalms and THAT'S the conclusion you came to? Out of all the beauty and heart-felt pleas, you come to religious exclusionism and borderline hate?
If this is what the church is, Jesus wouldn't be dining with us.
hmm... Your take seems emotional. I think Launcher is speaking on a different level. Consider the following scripture.ArchAngel wrote:When some says that no non-believer can be good and we need to distance ourselves from them, and that the natural disasters and other terrible occurrences are deserved, with little to no sense of remorse, then yes, it's borderline hateful. I do qualify my statements with "borderline" for what I'm interpreting to be your objections, but what his blunt opinion is very wrong on a very serious and moral level.
Launcher painted everybody not with him not as people to be loved, but agents of evil to be dispelled. These are people we are talking about. People! It just blows my mind that someone can talk about people so callously and ascribe it to God!
When I said that what you said sounded awkward, and that there was some truth to it I was basically addressing the way you phrased things. I agree that forced redistribution of wealth is immoral. When a government does it, I can see how one would hyperbolically say it's stealing. But with regard to taxes, did Jesus call it stealing or did he attribute ownership of the currency to the government?:launcher wrote:its not sort of true it is true. hes robbing the elderly's medicare, to pay for abortions. how is that contreversial? or partly true?
how can you take away anything from this other then, god protects the faithful man and when non godly people try to wrong them, god not only sides with the godly man but gives them to means to anihlate them. on top of that says in tons of places, the work of a godly person is blessed, those who arent are not. the houses of believers are protected, the non believers will be scattered away. and how does he scatter them? drought, tsunamis, hurricanes, floods, wars all kinds of ways. this backs up my main premesis.18 I will love thee, O Lord, my strength.
2 The Lord is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
3 I will call upon the Lord, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.
4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid.
5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
6 In my distress I called upon the Lord, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears.
7 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth.
8 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet.
10 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind.
11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
12 At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire.
13 The Lord also thundered in the heavens, and the Highest gave his voice; hail stones and coals of fire.
14 Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them.
15 Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O Lord, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.
16 He sent from above, he took me, he drew me out of many waters.
17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me.
18 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the Lord was my stay.
19 He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
20 The Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
21 For I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God.
22 For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me.
23 I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity.
24 Therefore hath the Lord recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.
25 With the merciful thou wilt shew thyself merciful; with an upright man thou wilt shew thyself upright;
26 With the pure thou wilt shew thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt shew thyself froward.
27 For thou wilt save the afflicted people; but wilt bring down high looks.
28 For thou wilt light my candle: the Lord my God will enlighten my darkness.
29 For by thee I have run through a troop; and by my God have I leaped over a wall.
30 As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the Lord is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him.
31 For who is God save the Lord? or who is a rock save our God?
32 It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.
33 He maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and setteth me upon my high places.
34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
35 Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.
36 Thou hast enlarged my steps under me, that my feet did not slip.
37 I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed.
38 I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet.
39 For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.
40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.
41 They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the Lord, but he answered them not.
42 Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets.
43 Thou hast delivered me from the strivings of the people; and thou hast made me the head of the heathen: a people whom I have not known shall serve me.
44 As soon as they hear of me, they shall obey me: the strangers shall submit themselves unto me.
45 The strangers shall fade away, and be afraid out of their close places.
46 The Lord liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.
47 It is God that avengeth me, and subdueth the people under me.
48 He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.
49 Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O Lord, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.
50 Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.
King James Version (KJV)
1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the Lord knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
I'm not convinced that this is how it is.. I mean.. that is how it is supposed to be, and that is how it is on paper, and that is what we are led to believe, but in reality I don't think we have much say in things anymore. Look at how Ron Paul was cheated every step of the way, only for the two candidates with the same main funder and not much difference between them to be declared the only real choices; with just enough emotional issue differences to keep people distracted from their similarities and the lack of real choice. The constitution and oaths are not taken seriously anymore; look at things like the NDAA and patriot act. Politicians pay lip service to the constitution, but people who promote it as the real authority are marginalized as extremists. Wars are fought without congressional declaration on one mans whim. If being the policemen of the world doesn't make it an empire, what would?launcher wrote:however this is our system, he is our servent, he anwsers to us, not us to him. his job is to conduct the will of the people, as defined by the constitution he swore to god to protect and defend. ....
this sums everything up?9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth.
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